Answering A Skeptic: PART 2- From Ezra to Hitler and beyond!

And he says: "But it gets worse!

According to him that is! He begins to use NOT scripture but commentaries on the Torah and arguments not proven as fact to make the Jews look bad. Not a very good argument at best and anti-Semitic in its worst form since Hitler wasn't in his right mind in the first place!

Ezra the Scribe

HERE IS THE TRUTH ABOUT EZRA, NOTHING LIKE THIS NONSENSE!

 

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/111905/jewish/Ezra-the-Scribe.htm

Led the return to Israel in 3413 (348 BCE)

http://www.ezra.mobi/2010/01/life-of-ezra.html#comment-form

The order in which Ezra took the various measures attributed to him is uncertain. He probably presented the Law to the people during the Feast of Tabernacles in the autumn, most likely in the year of his arrival.

He also took action against mixed marriages and succeeded in persuading the people to divorce their foreign wives voluntarily. His efforts reached their climax when the people engaged in solemn covenant before God to enter into no more mixed marriages, to refrain from work on the Sabbath, to levy on themselves an annual tax for the support of the Temple, regularly to present their tithes and offerings, and otherwise to comply with the demands of the Law.

NOTHING HE DID WAS IN ANY WAY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT GOD WOULD HAVE HIM DO

"Judaism has known for “thousands” of years that Ezra rewrote Torah and Jeremiah was telling the people that the scriptures were corrupted, Jeremiah chapter 7 & 8. So poor Marcion was on the ball when he said there was something wrong with the god of the Jews."

The scriptures were corrupted but not in any way as this Atheist intimates it was, God from the beginning wanted His people of whatever people groups they were to be SEPARATE from people's who did not serve God, that is the simple idea herein mutilated by nonsensical conclusions!

Ezra was a priest of God who was under great pressure to reinstate the Jewish way of worship in a time when his people were scattered in another land in subjection to a people who hated their God and worshiped many gods, so to accuse him this way flies in the face of reason.  If anyone was guilty of this it was the opponents of Ezra not Ezra himself.

"Ezra created god in his own image. In the image of a racist, Zionist, blood thirsty MONSTER, created he god.

Racism was invented by the Jewish Priest Ezra!"

This racist nonsense is straight from Hitlers warped mind, not Ezra but this argument about scripture taken entirely out of its context and reformed into this hate filled understanding of Gods prophet and his motives in saying certain things to his people is really taking it to far even for an Atheist!

"You don’t believe me?

Mein Kampf is the German version of the Book of Ezra. "

There is literally NO MENTION of this statement on the internet except a few atheists and this person BOB the Atheist, so it is obvious there is no proof of this overstated concept......it is the Bob doctrine alone and deserves no other response but the historical rather than the hysterical record of an Atheist!

Here is an interesting article about this book from the Jewish Encyclopedia: Especially the section on the SUPPOSED fabrications in this book!

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5968-ezra-book-of

http://www.tektonics.org/af/divforce.html
 

"In his Edict to the returned Jews from Babylon he stated:"

 

Please note here: Ezra was a scribe as well as a hereditary priest. As a scribe he was trained as all before him, in the minutiae of religious law and was qualified to translate and interpret those laws. Remember Jews were taught from early on to absolutely memorize the scriptures, so Ezra being a preist of God and a Scribe would not have been one to misquote God lightly if at all.

"Not only did Ezra demand that the foreign wives of Jewish men be cast off, he demanded that all the children of such marriages be sent away.

His edict was multi-generational. Children, grandchildren and great grandchildren were to be cast off, never again to see their families. And wives, who had been with.  their husbands only a few years, as well as those who had spent a lifetime with their mates, must also be sent away. No one whose blood was contaminated with non-Jewish blood could stay."

As you can see this Atheist is overplaying the sympathy card here on purpose, obviously in order to use the emotional element of this idea to sway his audience in favor of what he's saying!

But using this form of tactic is not right sinse he was not there to witness it first hand and the text he's referring to doesn't mention any of this happening at all, so it's simply made up emotional happening from his mind. It's fair to say that his argument is EMOTIONALLY based and not logically based!

HERE'S A GREAT ARTICLE EXPLAINING IN BETTER DETAIL WHY.

http://jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/402/jbq_402_wolakfinal.pdf

It must be completely understood that to be Jewish was multiracial by nature, many different people groups made up the Jewish people throughout their history as well as now, Jewishness ISN'T BASED UPON SKIN COLOR BUT RELIGOUS DEVOTION AND OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAW, so to state that it was unusual for God to require separation from unbelieving people is simply absurd and stupid.

There is no contradiction in Ezra only a misunderstanding and accusation from an Atheist LOOKING for such contradictions. It is possible to find contradiction in any given text if seen in a wrong spirit or ignorance so the point he is making is lost amid the true understanding!

He further states:

 

"The policy instituted by Ezra was more severe and contradicted the Deuteronomic Law which said: “You shall not detest an Edomite… you shall not detest an Egyptian…The sons of the third generation who are born to them enter the assembly of the Lord.” Deuteronomy. 23:8

 

 

I THOUGHT I MIGHT TAKE THE liberty OF PASTING THIS ENTIRE worthy ARTICLE TO CLEAR UP THIS ATHEISTIC MESS once and for all!

 

Did Ezra the Scribe Tamper with the Law of Moses?

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/ezratamp.htm

 

In Deuteronomy 16:2 it says, "Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the Passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and of the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there."    Yet in Exodus 12:5 it says, "Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats."   Says one writer, the reason for this difference is that Ezra the scribe re-wrote Moses' words in Deuteronomy 16, and changed the Law.   What is the truth?

Is there a contradiction between Exodus 12:5 and Deuteronomy 16:2?

 

Why does Exodus plainly tell us the Passover had to be a kid or a lamb, but Deuteronomy says even an animal from the 'herd" -- a bullock -- can be sacrificed? What gives? Why does Deuteronomy say "of the herd"? 
 

This used to puzzle me. At one time I thought that perhaps the reference to the "herd" might have referred to a "herd of goats." Obviously, goats don't "flock" together like sheep do -- they are too independent. But we do speak of a "herd of goats."

 

 

However, in studying Ezekiel's description of the millennial Temple of YEHOVAH God, I discovered another answer to the enigma.

In Ezekiel 45:21 we read, "In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten." During these seven days of Passover, YEHOVAH God commanded various "Passover" sacrifices to be offered at the Temple, or sanctuary.

 

On the first day of the feast, two young bullocks and one ram and seven lambs were to be offered for a burnt offering to the LORD (YEHOVAH) (Numbers 28:16-19). These would be the "Passover" offerings, and fell on the first high holy day, when the Passover was to be eaten. They included two bullocks.

 

These sacrifices on Passover would fulfill the commandment in Deuteronomy 16:2 about the sacrifices "of the herd," which were to be made on the Passover. However, as the commandment in Exodus plainly states, the Passover sacrifice itself had to be a young sheep or goat of the first year, unblemished. Obviously Deuteronomy 16:2 is discussing a different sacrifice than the regular Passover lamb! 

 

 

Another answer to this question, however, has also come to light. In studying in preparation for the Passover this year, I ran across a reference to Deuteronomy 16:2 which cleared up the whole problem. I discovered that the "Passover" sacrifice mentioned in Deuteronomy 16:2 could also refer to a special offering which often accompanied the Passover lamb itself, when it was sacrificed on Nisan 14. In The Secrets of the Haggadah: A Commentary on the Passover Haggadah, by M. Glazerson, we read the following:

"When the Pesach Sacrifice is offered, a Peace Offering is offered with it on the fourteenth day of the month, either from the bullocks or the sheep, large or small, male or female. This is called the 'Chagigah of the Fourteenth.' Of it, the Torah states: 'And you shall bring the Pesach as an offering of a meal to Hashem, your God; from the flock and the herd...' (Devarim 16:2). Scripture did not make this mandatory, but optional...

"When is the Chagigah brought together with the Pesach Sacrifice? They are offered together only in a state of ritual purity on weekdays when the Paschal lamb is too small for all those eating. It may be eaten for two days and one night. It is governed by the same regulations as all Peace Offerings...." (p.25).

One writer has claimed that the verse in Deuteronomy 16:2 refers to the Passover lamb itself, and that Ezra the scribe, who lived about one thousand years after Moses, changed the text and rewrote the words of Moses, adding the words "of the herd," and the entire commandment that the Passover lambs had to be killed at the "place where God put His Name," and not within their own gates or homes. 

 

 

This idea would mean that Ezra, a faithful and true servant of YEHOVAH God, tampered with the Word of YEHOVAH God, and deliberately altered Holy Scripture -- a nonsensical and foolish idea, if I ever heard of one! Ezra would never tamper with Scripture. "For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments" (Ezra 7:10).

 

 

He was "Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel" (verse 11). Ezra was a very righteous and godly man, and would never have tampered with or altered the meaning or the text of the books of Moses. 

 

 

However, for a supposed man of YEHOVAH God to claim that Ezra changed the writings of Moses, and altered inspired Scripture (II Tim.3:16), changing its meaning, is tantamount to calling Ezra a heathen, pagan, and calling YEHOVAH a "liar" who didn't really preserve His Word as truly "inspired." 

 

 

The truth is, YEHOVAH God Almighty inspired Moses when He gave him the Law -- the Torah. This includes Deuteronomy, chapter 16. Ezra did not change Scripture. It has been our understanding of the Scripture which has been lacking.

 

 

The Jewish book Secrets of the Haggidah clears up this mystery of the usage of the word "herd" in Deuteronomy 16, as it applies the the Passover. It is a reference to the Chagigah "peace offering," which could accompany the Passover sacrifice itself! 

 

 

This is an example of how we must be very careful lest we leap to wrong conclusions when studying the Bible. As the apostle Paul wrote, we must -- "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15).

 

In our effort to "Prove all things" (I Thessalonians 5:21), we must be very careful that we are not led astray by ministers and teachers who lack true understanding and who use the word of YEHOVAH God to deceive, delude, and seduce YEHOVAH's people into the way of error. As Solomon wrote so vividly, "There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Proverb 14:12).

 

 

Truly we must be very careful, and not accept at face value the ramblings and musings and mutterings of modern day ministers and "false teachers" who misunderstand, misteach, and misuse the Word of YEHOVAH God to their own advantage and purposes.

 

There are many ministers out in the world -- wolves in sheep's clothing -- who teach absurdity and folly for profit. And far too many have been suckered in by their vain words of arrogance and pretense.

 

-- Edited By John D. Keyser.

Later he made this statement of overreach concerning Ezra which was an attempt to use emotion to piss off Christians and prolong the argument. This would usually stop any sane response and cause the argument to go south into emotion where he would dismantle his opponents.

But history being what it is there is an answer that is satisfactory in regards to this question and it doesn't lead down a rabbit hole! 

"Racism was invented by the Jewish Priest Ezra!"

 

 

http://alltheusefulidiots.blogspot.com/p/destroying-race-card-with-truth.html

OK, let's first get a reality check here, the bible doesn't even teach RACE like we see it today (GO TO THE LINK ABOVE FOR THE TRUTH!), skin color had NOTHING to do with this. Jews are of MANY DIFFERENT skin colors around the world JUST Christians are.

Many people used to think of first-century Judaism as a monolithic block, a solidly unified religion, from which Christianity split off as a new religion.  In contrast, we now know that there were many different sub-groups within ancient Judaism, and that the early "Jesus Movement" was just one of many different Jewish groups.  Moreover, the separation of Christianity from Judaism was not sudden, but happened gradually over several generations.

 

 Traditionally the Jews are classified as of the Black people of the middle east but you can be a Jew and be of any people because its about obedience to the Laws of God not our immature beliefs about Race mixing.

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Jews.aspx#2

http://www.jewishfederations.org/black-jews.aspx

 

The Bible speaks of Nations OF PEOPLE not Races of color among people groups, and its a simple concept really because there is ONLY ONE RACE that God cares about "The Human Race" and that race must obey his rules or perish because of their OWN CHOICE to do so.

 

These Jews had knowingly disobeyed God and his clear warnings about intermarriage NOT WITH COLORED GROUPS among the people but with with idolatrous people of ANY COLOR whatever the reason for doing so, it was SIN to allow OTHER GODS into their midst and it would block God's abundance from them, in fact that was the reason they were in the problem of being dispersed in the first place.

"Ezra & Hitler are in total agreement

“it was against the will of the Eternal Creator. . .Nations that make mongrels of their people or allow their people to be turned into mongrels sin against the Will of Eternal Providence.”

Mein Kampf, p. 186 . . . p.162"

This is clearly a case of "Grand ideas" with SMALL minds, Hitler was no more a Christian than the Atheist who quoted him. This is the common problem with those who understand NOTHING of truth and even less about comparing apples to oranges.

Hitler was only masquerading as a Catholic, he was in fact nothing but a bitter Jew who hated his own faith so deeply that it resulted in 6 million deaths of innocent people not counting the millions of innocent people killed defending the world from him.

So please..... don't compare sending people away from Judah INSTEAD OF STONING THEM AS MOSES WOULD HAVE DONE, to murdering millions for the simple idea of RACISM when the whole idea was invented by men in order to enslave weaker people groups!

The mixed people spoken of here are the IDOL WORSHIPPING and by extension God hating heathen, no matter what they said THEY WOULD DO the decades of disobedience had taken its toll upon the people and their ability to obey God.

They were sorry they got caught as we all are when exposed and will try anything to avoid capture. Their reactions were simple "Fight or Flight" reactions not true repentance and turning from their idolatry.

The thing to learn here is clearly not what this Atheist took from the story, that REPENTENCE must be genuine or it is rejected by a Holy God. The results could have been MUCH worse for them had the Law been used to the fullest extent of its jurisdiction here.

Sending them into exile was being merciful compared to stoning them for idolatry but the full law wasn't in place yet because EZRA WAS IN THE MIDST OF SETTING IT UP THERE. So let us learn that God is merciful and kind when he deals with those who deserve the full punishment of the law!

 

 

 

 

Answering a Skeptic PART 1: From Adam to Hell!

PFROM BOB: A Posting reply to my page on http://ministerofblog.Wordpress.com/ , it was both improperly stated and improperly posted on the wrong page of my site. Guess he really didn't know the answers to his 'Logicly Lacking" questions were on the other pages.

I thought it wise to post it here as a teaching on just how illogical Atheistic thought is and how to rebut it in simple formats!

What transpires here is a muddled mess of what he thinks disproves the bible and thus God, and while ON THE SURFACE it seems logical at least to him....IT IS AS FAR FROM THE CONTEXT AS IT COULD EVER GET!

I will rebut each misunderstanding one at a time in continuing blogs as it will take awhile to do, but the entire mess of illogical "Buckshot" will be answered, probably not to HIS satisfaction but to any thinking persons mind. Christianity has been attacked by much worse criticism by far smarter people for centuries and has NEVER BEEN DEFEATED BY IT; BUT MADE STRONGER, this will be no different.

Bob says many things here, on many subjects from vast points of view...seems like he's trying to be his very own scripture but the problem is clear, he never nails down his true point once, he attempts too but fails.

Towards the bottom of this RANT he quotes many sources from Jewish history to prove they are Racist in their bottom line beliefs and are as bad as Hitler himself.

Funny how these people are constantly trying to vindicate Hitler or some other despot isn't it? This is the Progressive Liberal idea of getting to the facts, mixing actual history with false context to better their outcome to the public mind who seldom check the facts against the context.

 This of course is simply a contextual mess which he ether purposely made or just doesn't understand context in the first place, but either way it is just not truth.

Atheists and Skeptics always do this concerning scripture, THEY MUST, if they are to make any form of sense from their so-called logic.

What all their skepticism amounts to is always putting the cart before the horse, always forcing the puzzle together into an improper configuration just to "Create the illusion of Logic", asking wrong questions to apply the wrong answers, to come to a wrong conclusion!

"If the Foundation is built on Sand,
the whole structure will collapse."

This would be funny if it were not sad, this quote is VERY, VERY TRUE but not for the reason he thinks. If it applies to anything it applies to Evolutionary thought not Christian thought. But that being what it is we shall deal with his absurd reasoning concerning this!

"The whole of Christian theology is based on a conversation between a Man, a Woman and a Snake. Straight off one would be saying, “This is a MYTH, right”?"


The whole of his problem is a false narrative built upon false context and misapplied scripture. One could build a similar issue with ANY atheistic thought by taking an out of context statement and putting it into another context thereby changing the idea originally made and making it appear to be something different. This approach is common practice for those who LIE to protect a belief or cover a crime.

What he fails to see, on purpose or by ignorance is the simple fact that the story he tells is only half the story, the back story of the serpent, the women and the man in question is much different than his assertions.


He asserts that :

"The Canons of Dordt

Article 1:

" God’s Right to Condemn All People

Since all people have sinned in Adam and have come under the sentence of the curse and eternal death, God would have done no one an injustice if it had been his will to leave the entire human race in sin and under the curse, and to condemn them on account of their sin."

BUT the fact is HE DIDN'T leave us in that state when he had the full right to do so, he sent his Word (Jesus) to heal us and set us free.

The point here is simple...The death here is DISOBEDIENCE, not the conversation. Adam was IN CHARGE of all of God's creation, its protection, its upkeep and its outcome. Anyone who understands 'Chain of Command' can see what happened here in plain English. God gave Adam and by extension his wife Eve complete control of creation as God's representatives in the Earth.

God invested in Mankind EVERYTHING and in one act of disobedience EVERYTHING was lost, and to get back to the original intent of creation SHORT OF DESTROYING IT AND STARTING OVER God had to start a process of Re-creation in the earth though the sacrifice of Jesus.

"As the apostle says:

 The whole world is liable to the condemnation of God (Rom. 3:19), All have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23), and The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23)"

These statements have been removed from surrounding context on purpose to greater influence our ignorance concerning the intent of God. They manipulate the words to misinform us of God and make us doubt his intent towards us. Its the same old story, man can't be to blame for his state of being so it must be something or someone else, but if God doesn't exist....WHO'S TO BLAME BUT MAN?



This is the great issue that is created by Atheistic reasoning, IF God doesn't exist and according to him he CANNOT EXIST then how can they prove it by using the bible against itself? Is this not simply circular reasoning of the sort they accuse us of?

*****************************************************

"Original Sin

Original Sin– In the fifth chapter of Romans Paul created a concept–Original Sin–that is crucial to Christianity. He alleged humanity is under a curse because of Adam’s failings in the Garden of Eden.

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” (Romans. 5:12).

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Corinthians. 15:22).”(Also note Rom. 5:17-19).

This is a self created 'Issue' that doesn't exist, its making a problem where none is necessary. He assumes that Paul has ADDED what was not there to reinvent a doctrine to captivate mankind in a kind of 'Catch 22' damned if we do and damned if we don't. This could not be further from the truth, every word of Paul's doctrine is found in Genesis as the cause of mankind's problem's IF RIGHTLY DIVIDED from the context.

 

Yet, despite Paul’s assertions it’s difficult to see ( But not impossible) how the condemnations pronounced upon Adam, Eve, and the Serpent in the third chapter of Genesis (Genesis 3:14-19) condemned all mankind to eternal punishment. Paul’s interpretation is just not warranted by the narrative.

Not warranted by the Narrative? What he means is the Narrative AS I SEE IT not as it really is. He has reconstructed Paul's meaning so as to make it appear different from the meanings in Genesis, but they really are the same; its just that Paul reveals a deeper understanding of the curse and its implications to us. He added NOTHING but expanded everything to get a better understanding.

He seems to be the victim of bad reasoning skills, since he doesn't have the ability to PROVE what he's saying is true, he simply adds doubt instead of evidence to the narrative.

What happened to Adam, Eve and the Serpent has NOTHING to do with the DEATH of sin except in SMALL WAYS. This was never meant to explain the vast and far-reaching effects of sin in the future, only to give a picture of how it started. Anyone with a brain to think can conceive that Sin didn't start as it is now, it progressed to this point.


Death didn't start out killing everyone instantly, it progressed over time to kill in shorter and shorter increments. The Bible has NEVER indicated anywhere that things have instantly happened or that doctrine of Sin was a simple subject.

Because Atheists CANNOT prove that God doesn't exist, they resort to OVER SIMPLIFICATION OF DEEP DOCTRINAL SUBJECTS, such as 'Original Sin', the Resurrection of Christ or the Doctrine of Salvation by making improper connections and insinuating warped reasoning ending in wrong conclusions.

Genesis 3:14, for example, says:

“And the Lord God said unto the serpent, ‘Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life”.

Clearly this bestows no curse upon Adam and doesn’t materially affect the serpent. How did the serpent move before, if not upon its belly?

 It’s difficult to imagine a serpent walking upright or finding one that eats dust. Even if he had walked on legs, the alteration is not relevant to the issue. It is the curse on Adam that matters.

It would seem more a diversion is in play here by the Atheist who admits it matters not at the end of his sentence. So what matters to him he says is the curse upon Adam not the curse upon the serpent, what is his real point? In the end there is none, its all a matter of misdirection with Atheists. What he's doing here is a game of questions to straw men he can easily knock down and say 'there, see it's as I said no mention of Adams curse!'

Death entered man at the moment of disobedience and began its SLOW progress of eating away at God's perfection within us, changing the very DNA in us to accept death rather than renewal.

Genesis 3:15 says:

 

“And I will put enmity (Meaning WAR) between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers (her seed- KJV, RSV); he will crush your head and you will strike his heel.”

These curses sound ominous but are of little consequence for several reasons. In the first place, the serpent, i.e., the Devil, didn’t have offspring.

This is absurd, the serpent which was possessed by Satan as the physical snake had billions of offspring since the fall, Satan being the spiritual representation of evil produced billions of his own kind through mankind. Of course evil reproduced throughout history, this is the Devil's offspring and those who sin are HIS SPIRITUAL CHILDREN.

 According to Christianity the battle between good and evil is between the Devil and all others.

Wow, talk about missing his own point! Satan is against all of God's creation, why? Because of jealousy of former position with God, this is not in dispute. What is being said is clearly not what he thinks is going on.

Nothing is said about the Devil’s children. Secondly, if “the woman” refers to Eve, then her offspring could refer to any person who lived.

Now he's on to the real point.......ANY MAN, ANY WOMEN of Eve's children are ALL THE CHILDREN OF SIN and ALL MEN, and ALL WOMEN have the same exact chance to be saved. Sin is no respecter of persons and nether is God who Judges and Redeems.

When he states that 'nothing is said of the devil's children' he is so wrong as I have already proven it so but in their blindness they cannot see. The Bible here is referring to the seed of Adam through Eve BOTH PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY.

Adams physical seed produced all mankind on earth but because Adam disobeyed God's direct command NOT TEST HIS WARNING ABOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Meaning experiencing sin's practice) the spiritual seed of sin was to be passed on to all his physical seed.

 By what rationale can Paul say this verse is referring to one specific individual, Jesus, who lived thousands of years later in another part of the world? Her seed (RSV) must be referring to one person.

If not, if it is referring to all of Eve’s descendants, then to whom does “he” refer?

Thirdly, the waters are muddied even further by the fact that the KJV and the RSV say “her seed” and seed is always plural in the Old Testament. It’s never used to refer to a single individual, such as Jesus.

The verse refers to ALL but specifically to the ONE MAN who could reverse the problem caused by the ONE MAN ADAM. Jesus came through the physical seed of women and thereby through EVE but his Father wasn't tainted by the spiritual seed of Adam....SIN DID NOT HAVE ITS HOLD UPON HIM so he fulfilled this verses prediction to the letter. Though ALL MEN are from Eve's physical seed ONLY one man was ever of God's spiritual seed which Satan would bruise upon the cross and by that death Jesus would CRUSH SATAN'S HEADSHIP over mankind!

 

And lastly, the “he” couldn’t be Jesus, as Paul contends, because Jesus never crushed the head of Satan. If he had, then how could there still be “sinners” and how could the Serpent still be doing injury?

This argument sounds reasonable until one understands the nature of God's salvation, Jesus DID defeat Satan on the CROSS SPIRITUALLY but all the physical defeat comes one soul at a time as men repent and accept what he accomplished for them.

This has never been an issue nor a dispute in the true church, but false religions have truly muddied the water concerning Jesus and his sacrifice. Satan's injury is ONLY to God's creation not directly to God. God could never be defeated by so weak an enemy as Satan. Salvation coupled with Obedience shows Satan's defeat moment to moment before God.

Romans 16:20, which says:

 

“And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly” and 1 Thessalonians. 2:18, which says:

“Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us” show that even after the death of Jesus, Satan still lived and exercised control over people.

The best Christians can do with this problem is allege Jesus will destroy Satan when Christ returns.

Really? I think not, the bible said NOWHERE that the death of Jesus KILLED SATAN. What his death accomplished was to TAKE BACK what Adam lost and since what Adam lost DID NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT but took generations to take root the same is true of God's cure, Salvation doesn't happen in a instant physical way, it BEGINS in the spirit and spreads to the mind and body over time. The best Satan can do to the believer is to hinder their connection to their true home, he cannot stop them from getting there!

Genesis 3:16 says:

 

“Unto the woman he said, ‘I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee’.”

Even if this verse were true, it would not mark the establishment of Original Sin, but only explain why women have pain during childbirth and have been dominated by men. “Thy desire shall be to thy husband” doesn’t sound like a curse or punishment.

Did you hear him? 'Even if' 'Dosen't sound like' he bases his conclusions upon his feelings about scripture not upon what scripture acually says. Well weather or not it sounds like it or not to his reasoning or not these announcements by God are not THE CURSE but only a few of the results of the curse of separation from God which not only cursed mankind but the entire earth as well.
 

Genesis 3:17 says:
 

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life(RSV).”

This verse does little more than condemn man to work for a living and curse the ground upon which he labors.

Genesis 3:18 says:

 

“…thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you; and you shall eat the plants of the field (RSV).”

Listen to the context he avoids getting into, he then uses a verse from BEFORE THE CURSE WAS INSTITUTED to prove the curse isn't a real curse, sounds like he's afraid to admit to admit his reasoning is all over the place. The Curse contains multiltple areas of cursing, like of mankind, the ground, relationships, work, this is obvious to any thinking person!

 

The Curse extends out from man to all creation and Jesus took back the right through God to have dominion again but only if we obey the way of salvation. WHY? Because in order to gain what Jesus purchased you must enter through him, he is the doorway of escaping the curse. 

According to Genesis 1:29: Please note that this verse was given BEFORE Adam sinned and thus doesn't count as an argument to prove the curse isn't real!

 

“And God said, ‘Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food’,”

The plants of the field were already bestowed upon man for food. It’s difficult to see this as a curse, in any event.

What he fails to understand is that the Curse was not having to work the land but how the land itself was cursed and in turn cursed man. The land produced weeds and harness as a result of man's fall. Before the fall the earth wasn't cursed because of sin and therefore man who was in charge of its care tended the Garden east of eden, but ease was soon to give way to hard, toil and sweaty labor under the curse of sin and death!

 

Genesis 3:19 says:

 

“In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground…(RSV).”

Eating bread in the sweat of his face or working to produce food partly explains why man was created in the first place.

Genesis 2:5 says: “…and there was not a man to till the ground (RSV)”

Another epic failure in reasoning, man's original WORK was not hard to do because God was blessing his work, blessing the ground to produce, sin did not exist until the fall.

Genesis 2:15 says:

“And the Lord took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it (RSV)”

This shows man was put into the Garden of Eden to work and keep it up– a blessing of healthful work instead of idle existence. Except for having to work for a living, this is no curse upon Adam or mankind.
 
In summary, much of the “Curse” is upon the helpless earth which God had just created. There is not a single word or remotest hint at sin, at death, or eternal damnation.

Every clause of the “curse” is no curse at all. God told Adam that because of what he did the ground is cursed, he must toil for food, thorns and thistles shall be brought forth to him, and he must eat the plants of the field.

Where is the curse of Original Sin?

From the first curse in Genesis 3 to the end of Malachi, amid all the ravings threatening death upon the Chosen People, there is not the remotest reference in all the Old Testament to the Snake Story, the Curse of Adam, the Fall of Man, or the necessity of Redemption from “Original Sin” and the fires of Hell.

Hell and its fires are totally non-existent in the Hebrew scheme. All the furies of God are temporal terrors and end with death of the accused.

Jesus never once mentioned Adam or the pretended curse and fall. He never implied his mission was to undo what Adam had done. Not one of the gospel writers uttered anything about Adam, the Curse, or Redemption.

Original sin WAS and IS NOW simply disobedience to the commands of God, it was not obeying God that released sin into the world through the first sinner Satan, known then as Lucifer the light bearer. Atheists do not conceive of SIN as the bible presents it therefore they cannot see it where its presented differently.

His failure here is not in what he sees as obvious interpretation of the text but in his failure to dig a little under the surface of the obvious. It is obvious that much of the concept of hell was developed over time from the pictures of its existence through descriptive ideas in the Hebrew bible to the set in stone biblical teaching that Christ preached!

This Athiest cannot correctly interpret the idea of hell because he doesn't fully comprehend how God revealed the afterlife to those who had little understanding of theological concepts. Just because he'll is only spoken of in terms that the non theological mind can understand does not mean that he'll was not a real place. That would be like saying that because science did not reveal at the time in question ALL it's many facets that, that particular area of science wasn't in existence.

Hell as a theological concept wasn't known as such YET, but was developing through the mental pictures the Prophets and teachers were telling as God revealed it to them just as all knowledge was gradually delivered over time, no one ever got all their was to know all at once.

There's always something-part I

THERE’S ALWAYS SOMETHING

 

By -Thomas Lindley, Phoenix Science & Theism Examiner

Part I

 

 

We have a wondering about what came before,
A longing to know the roots of our past,
A searching to understand the secrets of our beginning
A reaching to find the origin of our existence

 

We are beginning a discussion of existence. It will span this and some subsequent articles.

 

 

We regard the universe as comprising all that is material.

The study of the origin of the universe is therefore a study of the origin of all that is material. That is, it is a study of the universe and all that is in it. The result of that study will prove that something must always exist.

 

We will find, however, that the something is neither the universe nor anything within it. The something will be found to have the following seven attributes:

(1) Eternal in existence,

(2) Origin of the universe,

(3) External from the universe,

(4) Non-material,

(5) In possession of infinite power,

(6) Not-detectable by the senses, and

            (7) One individual object.

 

That this discovery can be made is based on Paul’s words, with reference to God, at Romans 1:20:

“There are things about him that people cannot see—his eternal power and all the things that make him God. But since the beginning of the world those things have been easy to understand by what God has made. So people have no excuse for the bad things they do.” (New Century Version)

 

 

When questioning the existence of the universe, there are only three possibilities:

 

(1) The universe has always existed

(2) The universe came from nothing

(3) The universe came from something

 

 

We begin our discussion of existence having the goal of proving which of these is correct.

 

 

COMOGONY / COSMOLOGY

 

Cosmogony is the study of the origin of the universe. Cosmology is the study of the laws which control the universe. Cosmology, however, has been the term used in most recent discussions, as the study of the origin of the universe.

 

 

If we flipped a tape measure around the waist of the Earth, it would read a snug 25,000 (twenty five thousand) miles.

 

 

 Hold one end of that tape measure at the Earth’s core and unravel it to the moon, the line would read 240,000 (two hundred forty thousand) miles. Really get ambitious and anchor one end on the surface of the Sun and dash around in the opposite direction back to the starting point, you measure 3,000,000 (three million) miles.

 

 

The orbit of the moon is about 1,500,000 (one million five hundred thousand) miles. That means we could set the moon, the earth, even the orbit of the moon around the Earth, into the area occupied by the Sun and still have about 1,500,000 (one million five hundred thousand) miles left over.

 

We and the earth are nothing compared to the sun. It holds at least eight planets, their moons, orbiting rocks, assorted dust, and gases. The circumference of the material in the grasp of the Sun stretches to more than 70,000,000,000 (seventy billion) miles.

 

This is the Solar System. It carries the name of its parent star, or sun, Sol. Ninety nine percent (99.9%) of all the material in the Solar System is in the Sun itself.

 

Stars too form systems.

 

These stellar collections contain populations numbering into the billions. The largest of these collections are galaxies. They come in varied shapes and sizes.
Sol is just one of 400,000,000,000 (four hundred billion) stars in what is known as a spiral galaxy.

 

It has the shape of a disk. Our galaxy is rotating such that Sol is moving within the disk, sprinting along at 40 miles a second. Yet our galaxy is so large that it takes 250,000,000 (two hundred fifty million) years for it to make just one rotation.

 

 

At these distances, terms, even in multiples of trillions of miles, is just too small. We need a new kind of measuring rod. This measuring ruler must straight edge distances in excess of multiples of trillions of miles.

 

 It must scope the length, height, width of a galaxy, pace off the distance to our nearest spiral galactic neighbor, span the areas occupied by clusters of galaxies. It must even have the capability to measure the dimensions of the entire Universe.

 

 

Light is the answer!

 

 

LIGHT AS A MEASURING ROD

 

 A ray of light can span a distance of 6,000,000,000,000 (six trillion) miles is one light year. If one light year is six trillion miles, two light years is twelve trillion miles, three light years is eighteen trillion miles, four light years is twenty four trillion miles, five light years is---well, you get the idea. We simply multiply the number of light years times six trillion miles, to get the number of miles. We have linked light years to miles.

 

 

We are now able to use smaller numbers. For instance we can measure immense distances associated with galaxies. Our galaxy, The Milky Way, is 100,000 (a hundred thousand) light years across, 16,000 (sixteen thousand) light years thick. The distance to our nearest neighbor spiral galaxy, Andromeda, is 2,000,000 (two million) light years.

 

 

Both The Milky Way and Andromeda are part of a cluster of galaxies called the Local Group. This collection of galaxies is 6,000,000 (six million) light years across. It stretches over 400,000,000 (four hundred million) light years. This is part of an even greater group of galaxies, called the Super Cluster, 1000,000,000 (a billion) light years in diameter.

 

 The entire visible uiverse is about 28,000,000,000 (28 billion) light years in diameter. The Universe is the largest material thing there is. Now, when we look at these objects that make up this Universe, we get a look back in time.

 LIGHT IS ALSO A TIME MACHINE

 

Light illuminates the path to yesterday. The length of time it takes light to reach us is how far into the past we are seeing. The time lag causes us to see what was, at the light source when light left it.

 

 For us to see, light must first strike the object to be viewed, and then enter our eyes. Although it seems that we see close objects immediately, actually it takes enough time that we always view the after rather than the when.

 It is the 186,000 (one hundred eighty six thousand) miles a second travel time that makes the sighting of near objects seem instantaneous. When the distance between eye and object are large, however, the time lag becomes evident.

 

 

The Sun is 93,000,000 (ninety three million) miles from Earth. To swim that cosmic gulf, light takes eight minutes. The star nearest Sol is Alpha Centauri. Over four years is necessary for its image to ramble the 30,000,000,000,000 (thirty trillion) miles to our human eyes.

 

 

We are seeing the past. Since light meets our eye eight minutes after it departs the Sun, we see that star as it was eight minutes before. We see eight minutes into the past. If somehow the Sun winked out after that, we would not see it disappear for another eight minutes.

 

 

A gaze at Alpha Centauri is a look four years into the past. We see it now, so it was there four years ago. We’ll have to wait four more years to see if it’s there now.

 

 

The Andromeda galaxy is a set of events that saw action 2,000,000,000 (two million) years ago.

 

To observe the nearest galaxy beyond Andromeda in the Local Group of galaxies, is to experience existence as much as 6 million years ago.

 

 

Examining the most distant galaxy in the Super Cluster collection of galaxies is to see 1,000,000,000 (a billion) years in the past.

 

 

Galaxies extend 10,000,000,000 (ten billion) years into the past. From one and a half billion years and extending to about twelve billion years, are other small beacons of light. These have been labeled quasi-stellar (star-like) objects, or quasars.

 

 

 They have the unusual characteristic of putting out a hundred times more energy than a spiral galaxy of four hundred billion stars. They appear to be the centers of present day galaxies as they appeared in the past undergoing extreme forces of gravity.
Most galaxies are moving away from each other.

 

 

The farther back in the past we look, the greater distance from Earth we view, the closer they were to each other. By looking at the speed of these galaxies and their distances from each other, we find that every galaxy-sized object in the in the universe was squeezed together at a specific time in the far past.

 

 

In There’s Always Something, Part II, we will see how the striking impact of gravity directs us to the correct conclusion about the existence of the universe.

 

 

Some References

 

 

1. Livio, Mario (2000). The Accelerating Universe: Infinite Expansion, the Cosmological Constant, and the Beauty of the Cosmos, John Wiley & Sons, New York

 

 

2. Dickinson, T. (2004). The Universe and Beyond. Firefly Books Ltd., Toronto, Canada

 

 

3. Editors: Horwood, Blondel, and Mason. (2006) Solar System Update. Springer-Praxis

 

 

4. Lindley, Thomas (2008). Eternal Origin, Xlibris Corporation, New Jersey

 

Thomas Lindley, Phoenix Science & Theism Examiner

Tom is a mathematician working as a technical consultant for NASA and commercial companies. He researches and writes about purely scientific proof that the entity described as God in the Holy Bible, the Qur'an, and the Tanakh must exist. Such research led to his writing the three-volume book...